shapechange vs true polymorph

One fortunate piece of clarity comes from this episode of Dragon Talk where Crawford clarifies that retain[ing] its personality and alignment means that its intended that you still understand who your friends are, even if your intelligence is now lower than the average bear. It depends on how you look at it. I don't have a druid either, but I can say that being knowledgeable about the game's mechanics and seeing their spell lists is reason enough to dissuade me from entering into this class. And true polymorph allow changing creatures into objects and vice versa. It can cripple enemies, turn the caster or an ally into a ferocious beast, or provide you with utility options which are difficult to replicate without relying on numerous other spells at once. The advice offered below is based on the current State of the Character Optimization Meta as of when the article was last updated. When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit The wording is different than the wording for the spell in the. The GM determines whether it is practical for the new form to wear a piece of equipment, based on the creature's shape and size. I had used it, and is one of my favourite spells in the game, because you are making the saves using the new form's saving throw proficiencies, so let's put an hypotetical lets say you transform into an ancient brass dragon, that has a +13 to con savings, you would have to receive more than 28 points of damage for the dc to be higher than 14 just to make the dc for you to be able to fail it, and taking into account that the average damage a terrasque, a cr 30 monster, makes is 28 i would argue the concentration aspect is almost irrelevant. There is no best form; every problem requires a different tool. and have only 1 hit point left, you revert and take 9 damage. The transformation lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies. If you're concentrating on one spell, and you cast another concentration spell, when exactly does the first spell end? In other words, True Polymorph is still an active spell on the target, and would be suppressed but not removed by an antimagic field. @Sawyer that's a good question, and also opens up my answer to the following criticism: in the case of True Polymorph and Shapechange, they are ninth level spells and as such would take precedence over a sixth level spell unless it was cast an 9th level to do more damage. Pit Fiend or a Dragon are the obvious choices. When every problem is a nail, its nice to have a good hammer. Others won't. If you concentrate on this spell for the full duration, the transformation lasts until it is dispelled. The targets game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. You also maintain your mental ability scores, which is a slightly double-edged sword but at least means youre not going to hose yourself if you do turn into something dumb and burly. For example, if you take 10 damage in animal form You can't use any special senses you have (for example, darkvision) unless your new form also has that sense. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Now use the ghost to magically age the shadow dragon into an ancient gold shadow dragon. 2018 errata fixed the RAW to specify this intended behaviour-. So what level of authenticity is required? * (a jade circlet worth at least 1,500 gp, which you must place on your head before you cast the spell). Change Shape: The dragon magically polymorphs into a humanoid or beast. Alright, so this means that, if you have any equipment you really care about, youre going to want to keep yourself to medium size and probably humanoid-ish. You can find more information about what constitutes a class feature among monster traits in this Q&A: What is considered a class feature for a monster for the purpose of Change Shape? User without create permission can create a custom object from Managed package using Custom Rest API, Extracting arguments from a list of function calls. Best creatures to turn into with true polymorph? : r/dndnext - Reddit Do they remain dead? Now, in terms of power, neither True Polymorph nor 5es version of Shapechange hold a candle to Wish. Who knows. What's the cheapest way to buy out a sibling's share of our parents house if I have no cash and want to pay less than the appraised value. The Sage Advice Compendium supports this answer from a RAW perspective: What happens if a druid using Wild Shape is reduced to 0 hit points by disintegrate? When you drop to 0 hit points, you either die outright or fall unconscious, as explained in the following sections. Wild Shape also comes into the game much earlier than those spells. Keep in mind that the lowest level you will be able to cast Polymorph is level 7, so you generally wont look for combat forms below CR 7. the druid, not the beast form, drops to 0 hp. An Answer for Everything: The 3.5 Shapechange Handbook ( direct link) 3.5 Summoned Creature SLA Lists (indexed by SLA) 2017-03-11, 03:37 AM (ISO 8601) Spoilers. True Polymorph Concentration Level 9th Casting Time 1 Action Range/Area 30 ft Components V, S, M * Duration Concentration 1 Hour School Transmutation Attack/Save WIS Save Damage/Effect Buff (.) What about if you change it in ways that dont damage the product though? You decide what action it takes and how it moves. Next paragraph: The targets gear melds into the new form. You lose access to your former class features while True Polymorphed. But what about their personality? It does mean you dont get the full benefit out of, for example, Shapechanging into a pit fiend and using the Charisma of 24 to power your Bard spells, although thats still a very good idea since they can clearly speak and have hands for somatic components on top of a pile of other great benefits. The creature can be restored to life only by means of a true resurrection or a wish spell. Those are the two big differences I see on a quick glance, there may be more if you dig into it. If we take both spells together, this seems to imply that Shapechange would allow you to turn into constructs were it not for the inclusion of the part where you cant, meaning that True Polymorph probably means that, in fact, you can. You can argue RAI being for polymorph and the second pool of HP (which is a benefit of those spells and abilities) taking precedence. If I use magic to see a pit fiend in a dream (with the Dream spell), does that count? Essentially, a druid like this would be able to stay shapechanged -indefinitely-. Why don't we use the 7805 for car phone chargers? The warlock casts True Polymorph, turning the bard into an Ancient Brass Dragon (possibly even one that can cast spells). I support this - I'd like to see duration and possible forms changed to SRD. the druid, not the beast form, drops to 0 hp. Switch from a Marilith to a Planetar for that sweet, sweet healing, then into something else if you want to. To my understanding, this -is- the primary mode of combat, travel, etc. That one gets a solid probably from me but is still strange to think about. It acts on each of your turns. Boolean algebra of the lattice of subspaces of a vector space? Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Especially in regards to Polymorph and Shapechange and Secret Doors. Wizards of the Coast LLC. You can however keep using True Polymorph to turn into various creatures with spell slots, and exhaust them all. Its certainly simpler. Which takes precedence? by Selveem Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:00 am, Post What is the meaning of 'permanent' in description of True Polymorph? It seems odd that wild shape is replaced by shapechange as a druid ability, when shapechange is a powered up version of polymorph for druids and wizards according to D20. If it reverts as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to its normal form. Can a Wizard polymorph low-level PCs into over-powered beasts? You do not get the chance at a death saving throw, nor to stabilize in the disintegrate case. Before you read this guide, read the Polymorph spell description on the 5e SRD. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. If the intent was to include all things legendary I believe it would have been writen that way. dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your Wow, this is the part of the spell thats so good. The spell lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies. Now, in terms of power, neither True Polymorph nor 5e's version of Shapechange hold a candle to Wish. It acts on each of your turns. I know that True Polymorph is a Concentration spell, so the first True Polymorph would end when they cast the second one, I don't think they lose the spell they're Concentrating on if they lose the Spellcasting feature that gave them the slot in the first place? The GM determines whether it is practical for the new form to wear a piece of equipment, based on the creatures shape and size. It might remain friendly to you, depending on how you have treated it. Passing negative parameters to a wolframscript. You assume the form of a different creature for the duration. You recover your uses in the span of an in-game day. The creature can't be a construct or an undead, and you must have seen the sort of creature at least once. Like a summon. you arent knocked unconscious. You can only speak if the creature can normally speak. Unfortunately, the highest CR beast is currently the Tyrannosaurus Rex at CR 8. So if I'm understanding right: Disintegrate could replace the 0 HP trigger and thus insta-kill morphed creatures, or Polymorph would have precedence. Giving this some more thought is certainly more I'd like to see, along with everyones, The third problem is skill ups. You also retain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature. Random Powell. The "or dies" can be applied to all creatures that are not a PC; those creatures usually die when dropped to 0 HP. True Polymorph is permanent. Waiting for OP to clarify, but they could concentrate for the full hour ot make TP permanent, and then your concern is no longer an issue. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); DnD 5e New Practical Guide to True Polymorph and Shapechange, Practical Guide to True Polymorph and Shapechange DnD 5e. I see your general point on spell text. A failed save always sucks, but I'd be glad to have this up as a damage sponge if nothing else in that case (because you'd lose the concentration after taking the damage). It seems clear that Polymorph restricts you to doing things your new form is inherently capable of doing, whereas Wild Shape and Shapechange allow you to do anything you're normally capable of as long as your new form is physically able to do it. Thats just basically a movie screen that a Scrying is playing on. While polymorphed, the targets game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. If you turn a creature into an object, it transforms along with whatever it is wearing and carrying into that form, as long as the objects size is no larger than the creatures size. Choose one creature or nonmagical object that you can see within range. The creature can be restored to life only by means of a true resurrection or a wish spell. Dungeons & Dragons, D&D, their respective logos, and all Wizards titles and characters are property of Wizards of the Coast LLC in the U.S.A. and other countries. by Tarven Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:13 pm, Post Discussions about the Forgotten Kingdoms Game, Post This links in to the "what happens when you are reduced to 0 HP" rule. Apparently, RAI is in opposition to my other answer per a tweet from Mr Crawford (Credit to @Airatome for this tweet): Jeremy Crawford Shapechange trait from something like a dopplganger says; The doppelganger can use its action to polymorph into a Small or Medium humanoid it has seen, or back into its true form. That 88 damage just became 44 and the Concentration check DC is 22. This spell gives the willing creature you touch the ability to see things as they actually are. He can be an epic dragon, but will be able to PPP back into his Clone if he ever dies. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. What, that guy? As long as the excess damage doesnt reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, you arent knocked unconscious. I think freeing shapechange from Polymorph's duration constraints and list of available creatures (elementals, magical beasts, etc. What differentiates living as mere roommates from living in a marriage-like relationship? As long as the excess damage doesn't reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, you aren't knocked unconscious. dnd 5e - How is True Polymorph not completely unbalanced? - Role What's the cheapest way to buy out a sibling's share of our parents house if I have no cash and want to pay less than the appraised value? Does a Clone spell work on a (True) Polymorphed creature? The tweet favors the "specific" of polymorph/Wild Shape/Shapechange/True Polymorph, rather than the specific of disintegrate, requiring the exhaustion of both HP pools before being turned to dust by that spell. Has the cause of a rocket failure ever been mis-identified, such that another launch failed due to the same problem? The differences are entirely for the roleplay description of the monster as it disintegrates, and the size of the ash-pile. Worth noting though is that if you concentrate on it for the whole hour the spell becomes permanent until dispelled. This means that its not actually permanent and would cease in, for example, an Antimagic Field (temporarily), or if successfully targeted by a Dispel Magic. In theory you should last at least 3 or 4 rounds as the creature in question (if it has Legendary Resistance) and in that time, you should be able to mess some stuff up. Hex and Polymorph/ShapeChange - Warlock - Class Forums - D&D Beyond Does disintegrating a polymorphed enemy still kill it after the 2018 errata?

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