lds church multiple probations

Choose one innovative idea the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has announced in the last 10 years. Ive had some of those same thoughts. ", More significantly, JS' King Follett Sermon suggests that, after the resurrection, each heir to Godhood will eventually serve as a Christ in a mortal probation. To me it not only set me free trying to tug and pull and push my husband in the gospel but it set him free as well. I often commented in Church Sunday School, that, to be considered Noble and Great!! I only wish that I could have been here more than two times. In January of 1846, just over a year and a half after the death of JS, Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball ordained each other to act as a savior. http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/shirley-maclaine-tells-film-set-stories-line-article-1.2545803. The LDS church teaches the Pauline principle of many degrees in heaven. 25Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law. And as the head of our creation under the Father, it is Jesus who will be head in the next creation the way the father is. As with Moses, the stark contrast in dark and light leaves no Apparently, Laub wasn't the only who understood the King Follett Sermon this way. ??? I highly recommend Multiple Probations: A Lost Doctrine Remembered by Eric Smith and Greg Christiansen, edited by Julie Rowe. When we get to where Jesus is, he will be just as far ahead of us again in exaltation." However, Laub didn't only understand that the Holy Ghost would serve as a Christ (more on that later), but he also implied that JS' King Follet Sermon taught that all who achieved Godhood would pass through the same. Thats kind of you to say. If they are returned then effectively this reading is denying they are resurrected at all. have troubled them throughout their lives. I love your island perspective, which I hadnt considered. I believe even to the point that if I see an extra dark effort to oppose something then it must be very significant. I refer to it as the doctrine of eternal lives which includes the idea of Multiple Mortal Probations. Most Mormons don't even know about this rule. A blog from a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. dangerous doctrine. Here is the relevant portion: they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. I have not ever been constrained by The Spirit to speak in ways that invite others to look to me for the answers that must only come from Father. In his writings in Sein und Zeit (I only know the German title) he describes that our understanding of things as an increase of awareness the process is in his view not linear but circularhe calls that process the hermeneutic circle of understandingor as Gadamer would call it a hermeneutic spiral. It reminds me again of Gods ever extended arm of mercy. Thanks for sharing your witness. I want to move forward and progress to the next grade. Do you have a direct link? Denver Carlos Snuffer Jr. is a Utah lawyer, an author of Restorationist devotional books, a lecturer, a speculative theologian, and claims to be a "revelator to fellowships of the remnants movement," a spiritual movement in schism with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). LDS church on Gilgul or multiple mortal probations Third Hour Forum Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting. Your peaceful witness strengthens my own. I am finding that this doctrine adds more meaning and understanding to my gospel study. version of the doctrine has been aired publicly, I am concerned that too many Mahalo. My niece is a Medium, and she mentioned something like this happening when we go to the other side. I always thought it unfair that I would be judged on the privileged (but hard) Life I have lived, while another may have been born into a leper colony in India. These secret teachings coincided with teachings by Joseph that either explicity stated or implied that previously resurrected beings, essentially from a prior earth, could interact with mortals on this earth. Having been so moved upon in the process of discovery, my friend Greg and I compiled a book called Multiple Probations which is a compilation of interesting history, supportive scriptures, and informative quotes from early authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I love that you point our how the Ninth Article of Faith apples to all who earnestly and humbly seek the truth, and not for just a select few. mistake in my mind as to who the authors of the two variations are. A magnifying glass. I have always know it to be true, the gospel of Jesus Christ, and have never doubted it, no, not even for a second. . I do have a question though. I love you all and am thankful for the puzzle piece of truth each of you has to offer in my journey. Cheryl. I love the doctrine of multiple probations. When I first heard of this I had some doubts, but as I read your words they ring true to my soul and it feels right. It looks to me like they just misunderstood what Joseph was teaching. Though I was a member of the church since I was young, I can relate to your experience. They also vicariously ordained Joseph and Hyrum to do the same. various sects of Christianity as a true and practical doctrine, as evidenced by He recorded, "But the holy ghost is yet a Spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body as the Savior did or as god did or the gods before them took bodies for the Saviour Says the work that my father did do i also & those are the works he took himself a body & then laid down his life that he might take it up again." I feel a longing and hope that I can learn and progress for as long as I choose to without time limits. It j u s t makes sense. I do not condemn those who feel this way. But as I have contemplated his question, I have come to know we still need a Savior because it is through His atonement and grace that we can even have multiple probations and be resurrected in the first place. I will ponder about it and ask Heavenly Father. My heart is full . I believe this to be truth. Some parts of it make sense, but Ive never wanted to think too deeply about it because it made me feel such sadness to think I would be reborn somewhere else and lose my husband and kids, if they were to go somewhere else. Given George Laub's explicit summary of the King Follett sermon and the short time between JS' death and these ordinations performed in the Nauvoo period, it seems very likely that the doctrine underlying the ordinations originated with JS. I can testify if one puts their effort into their relationship with Heavenly Father and Jesus first, (who are one God) And accept the Saviors Atonement by putting the effort into repenting and forgiving. Thank you Ericfor putting what I know to be true into words. Some say this scripture suggeststhat a person might be able to leave the telestial glory experience another life on earth and then return to the telestial glory. 44 Wherefore, he saves ALL EXCEPT THEMthey shall go away into everlasting punishment, which is endless punishment, which is eternal punishment, to reign with the devil and his angels in eternity, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, which is their torment. I thought I had reached the bottom of the rabbit holeI guess it goes deeper still. I love our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and I know He loves me. In fact, he attributed his identification of Michael as God the Father to JS' commentary on Daniel and JS' equivalence of Adam, Michael, and the Ancient of Days. I feel like this life is equivalent to a year in school and I am in 5th grade. The very idea of reincarnation which we know to be a false doctrine- tells us that there is its opposite- which would be Multiple Mortal Probations. Should you want a space where you can harangue, belittle, mock, and incite people to contention for their deeply held, sacred beliefs then by all means create some forums with your own rules. What seems to be missing is the escape clause to such a definitive end. It is uplifting to the soul and brings me closer to Christ. However, the teaching was probably only explicitly taught to a select few. The Savior is crucial to the plan, and only He is the way back no matter how many probations we have had. against the adversary with greater fervor. I understand the principle of Condensension and know of my involvement there. Michael Quinn documented it as follows: By the time of his death in 1844, Joseph Smith had also reversed his prior rejection of the Cabala's doctrine of "transmigration of the souls." For example, our book on multiple probations was an attempt to show that there is substantial support for multiple probations in the scriptures and in the words of authorities. but it is necessary to know in the context of my exaltation. ("Scriptural Items," F. D. Richards, August 27, 1843 . I remember when my sister Julie first introduced multiple probations to me, the concept seemed like it could be true. With a larger canon than most religions, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have access to a great many doctrines regarding this topic. Thats a great question, Diane, and an important thing to define. multiple lives, which to me is practical and actually very simplistic in That is they aren't to be taken mystically or platonically but in a materialist/historicist kind of 'literalism.' But my mother died recently and the idea of her in another probation feels a bit heartbreaking. Some have said that it has to do with having more children and posterity. However, my understanding of this doctrine and how it works creates the opposite reaction. Thank you Eric. Im grateful you shared your experience here! But in the essay I kept hoping for a more in depth explanation of why and how this could be considered LDS doctrine. That one would be tempted to say this life is just too hard. I should clarify that I approach this issue froma historical perspective. .Sometimes we also borrow the picture of the gate when we speak about the baptism. Not once, has this doctrine pulled me away from the gospel, as many false prophets and their teachings aim to achieve. While I may not be able to answer these and other questions, When I was introduced to this topic of multiple mortal probations several years ago it just made sense. Under the doctrine of multiple probations it makes it fair that those without the . Alaris We know that there is opposition in all things. Mormonism today is pretty bland by comparison. Thank you for sharing your witness Cheryl! We also know that there is an opposite to all things. In front of my eyes. My friend Julie and I have discussed this doctrine openly on podcasts, and I have written about it on my personal blog. Thank you again for bringing more clarity of the Great Plan to light. To be associated with James Allen is an honor for me. It is as though our Asian brothers and sisters who comprise The more I know the more I am constrained to announce The Glory of God and my own unworthiness before He Who Is Mighty To Save. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It "feels" more true to me than most of Christianity's "one and done" model. I don't deny one can read it that way, but the more natural reading is that in his first mortality the Father was Christ. Thank you for sharing. Knowing what the Lord has trusted me He wrote that Joseph stated, "Now the history of Josephus in Speaking of angels came down and took themselves wives of the daughters of men, See Geneses 6 Chapter 1-2, verses. It should be made clear that the denomination Brigham Young founded in 1851, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has rejected these teachings. The Mormon scriptures clearly state that meat "should be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.". kindness from cruelty, and so on. And no man knoweth of his ways save it be revealed unto him; wherefore, brethren, despise not the revelations of God. Jacob 4:8. Group Guidelines: 1. When your book came out with Greg I was excited to read it and I did several times. Interesting, interpretation. widowsmitereport.wordpress. I did not go seeking a new doctrine. Lidia, hearing you received your own witness is so validating. D&C 132:22-25 can easily be interpreted that way: 22For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me. Thank you, I have been pondoring over weather I should share this, by no means am I a visionary like Julie and many others but on December 7th 2018 my Dad passed away at 100 yrs and 4months, my fathers passing opened up a portal to a degree that allowed me to communicate in a small way with those in the Spirit Word, what transpired startled me at first but the experience lasted for weeks. I could discern truth because I have long since done what you and Julie ask us to do almost every podcast. I like your point about second chances for wayward souls. May God bless you too. As I pondered the gravity of that situation seeing the effects of disobedience in other families and in my own I prayed asking Heavenly Father how he could let so many of His children fall and be cast off. Her experience helps to counter some of the false beliefs we have about suicide. I believe that the greatest truths will be met with the greatest opposition. Adam-God can then be seen as based on JS' teachings and the endowment, with a simple fundamental misunderstanding on the identity of Micheal in the Godhead. THE PROBATIONARY TEST OF MORTALITY. It is grasped in a such a powerful symbol the baptism. This clarification is very helpful. Your email address will not be published. Further because the arguments depend upon misreadings and often lack explicit texts its pretty circumstantial arguments at their strongest. and Eve could not know good from evil without partaking of both, which is That this doctrine will promote casualness and laziness. If learning, progression, and the development of the soul is the reason for life, then I don't see how that is possible with just one life time. The LDS sharing their beliefs about what the mysteries is hardly a breaking of the rules. While belief in this doctrine is unpopular in the Christian world at this time, I would like to share some of the ways it has been a blessing to me. 6 No Eating Meat in the Summer. Even when I was small, I felt that some spirits come to be tested and other (superior) spirits come to test! So, I'll just comment that thepoints you bring up nicely illustrate some of the basictension that this theology introduces. When I hear the term applied to people other than Jesus I immediately think of Mosiah 15 and not MMP. I like you, have had a sure witness even as I am writting this that it is true. Well done, Eric. While I do not consider reincarnation to be true, it is clearly an their state became a state of probation, 2 Ne. This all adds up to only one conclusion in my mind, there is a way and a plan, and the fact that so many do not achieve their potential in a short life span, means there must be another time and place to prove themselves and the Doctrine of Multiple Probations is the only doctrine I see that provides a fair, and merciful means by which mankind may improve themselves line up line, precept upon precept enough to eventually become perfected in their own generations and exalted in all levels of Heaven. Orson Pratt apparently wasn't in on it or hadn't understood it as others had. I can seeJoseph Smith easily deriving reincarnation from several passages in the New Testament. Can someone please give me some context for how this idea is considered doctrine? 2:307 or TPJS, pp. Thank you for putting our thoughts into words of deeper understanding. One example of this is the multiple scripture references to go no more out. . That actually seems more admirable to me - that Jesus himself "became" who he was through 1000's of lifetimes of progression and trial and error, just like the rest of us. It indicates, "Click to perform a search". Thank you so very much for your great insight and belief in God and the scriptures!! Just being made perfect from the get-go isn't something special. Although Sister Rowe is an active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, her book is not endorsed by the Church and should not be recommended to students or used as a resource in teaching them. The pattern and symbolism is unmistakable! I met an individual who had seen me on one of those probationary Earths. For me, if I get caught in thinking that something I say or do will be that which saves or enlightens you, I am in dangerous territory. Now of course the argument of various forms of platonism in early Mormonism typically comes with it the claim that Joseph ismisreading platonism. The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints official stance on multiple mortal probations (similar to reincarnation) is that is the doctrine of the devil. Perhaps the clearest example of this is a statement recorded by Nauvoo saint, George Laub. . Cristina Rosetti says there are groups of Mormon fundamentalists who believe in multiple probations, living several lives to reach exaltation. Having experienced the intense glory of Gods I like cats better. Those who join are in serious jeopardy of losing their membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and also their eternal life, or exaltation, in the Celestial Kingdom of God. Each new day begins with the Sun (Son), providing a fresh beginning from the previous days follies and experiences, and yet, we continue to build upon those previous experiences. 33:9. this life became a probationary state; a time to prepare, Alma 12:24. a probationary time, a time to repent and serve God, Alma 42:4. your days of probation are past, Hel. Aloha brother. grudge against anyone who does not believe, or who does not want to know more They are those who openly came into the presence of Christ and openly rejected what Christ is offering. We are all blessed! Two of the women Smith secretly married as plural wives in the 1840s said that he privately affirmed reincarnation. In the light of the son every person is getting a form, visible to everyone around as they are becoming visible themselves the darkness will fadeas only the light has the power to vanish the darkness. I know that this is true. I was drawn to him because of these gifts that he freely shared with me. Im glad you feel that way Kendall. And a gate symbolizes a new aera of time. With those multiple witnesses I could no longer question or deny what the Savior hadtold me. i.e. D&C 132 on the other hand was dictated in 1843, prime time for this topic. We remembering reading that Joseph Smith knew so much more than he could tell because of disbelief and anger from others. Kim, that is a very insightful point that would seem to be a witness Of truth hidden in plain sight that if reincarnation is a false doctrine, that there must be an opposite, which I feel my spirit was first introduce to in the temple. I truly appreciate your time and great efforts in doctrinal essays and your wonderful books. Blessings to all seekers. I continue to rejoice and find joy in seeking and discovering truth. Very well said Victoria! There is always hope in Christ. JS taught many times that Michael stood next to Christ in authority, and he also taught that Elohim was the head of the Gods (i.e. Ensign, October 2017, 64-71. Multiple Probations is a beautiful doctrine. How did we live in the pre mortal realms and agree to a plan to come here where we only had one shot to get it right? Thanks for sharing this interesting history. Verlan. I am a witness that these promises are true. I do so realizing it could be the very thing that causes estrangement from my family, friends, and my church. Anyways, it soon became apparent that his fruits were not matching what I knew to be honest and true from my own scripture study, and beliefs. It makes wonderful sense when you consider how merciful and how loving our Savior Jesus Christ is especially when we are gifted with agency both pre and post mortality. Because LDS leaders sometimes refer to this life, before our death and eventual resurrection, as our "mortal probation," based on the scriptural term "probationary state," Daybell and Vallow call their belief in reincarnation "multiple mortal probations." I feel motivated to try harder and do better. There is only one truth but countless falsehoods. And thank you Greg. The passage I was given is found in D&C 76 which also happens to be about the Mysteries of Godliness: D&C 76:41-44 I continue to find supporting evidence in scripture and temple ordinances. Without a previous life, how could the blind man commit a sin responsible for his handicap, as the man was blind from birth? The Bible is ripe with evidence in this belief. God bless you, brother! Rowe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints after . I enjoyed your book very much and reading your essay just now is when I felt enveloped in the calmest, loving peace, and knowing that bore witness that this additional knowledge is indeed true. I love how Heavenly Fathers plan for his children is so loving and allows us to learn and grow in our own way and at our own pace. Thank you again for your testimony and to stand boldly for truth. This thesis explains a bunch of odd data points and suggests a straightforward explanation for the origin of Adam-God. Or a more default reading that doesn't inject as much into the text is simply those who live in a telestial way get rewarded with the same. Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. May I share my own experience that has allowed me to know and discern truth of such doctrine as MMP. The Church Has a Bunker-Like Network of Tunnels. 2:43 p.m. John Thomas is conducting cross . This teaching was perhaps even canonized as, "This is eternal livesto know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. Is she the main source? Thank you sincerely for sharing this with us! Answer (1 of 5): The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has a book called Preach My Gospel, which is an official guide for missionaries. Both Brigham and Heber were indoctrinated in the principles and I suspect others, particularly W.W. Phelps. As for multiple lives and multiple mortal experiences, Joseph and the early saints were getting pretty creative and speculative by Nauvoo.

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