My truck has 8600 miles on it currently. Diagram. . Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing If youre experiencing engine shudder in your Ford vehicle, please bring it to your nearest dealership or service center so we can take a look and get it fixed up for you as soon as possible. Did the re program- to no avail- the engine light back on. There may be some less smooth shifting during this process. - Anyone have any information regarding the new recall notice I just received in the Ford App. These effected models include: This vehicle repair also covers the Ford Raptor and Limited F150 variants. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. From what the rep told me 21B10 needed to be done before 21N08 even though I have a FSA for 21N08. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? This newer field service action 21N08 software update is designed to solve the motor shuddering problem caused by the 21B10 reflash. Generally, Fords are extremely reliable vehicles and are cheap to repair. My goal is to empower more people to be self-sufficient. Less rattle on startup, and no adverse effects so far. You must log in or register to reply here. Cookie Policy - Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER; . The initial cam phasers rattle would generally first appear on a cold start due to a lack of oil. This issue can be uncomfortable and potentially dangerous for the driver and passengers, and it can also lead to reduced performance and fuel efficiency. I had 21B10 done last week on my '19. 14. Cam phaser rattle back and check engine light on. Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. It was program #21N08 PCM Reprogram due to engine shudder. Manage Preferences - I'm late to the party but my 3.5L EcoBoost is doing this and it's getting worse. Sounds pretty promising Sounds pretty promising Cam phaser rattle back and check engine light on. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. JavaScript is disabled. I've seen some mention of a shifter cable clip that breaks or something. Hello Raptor world. Your email address will not be published. One of the most common issues that you may face is to program 21n08 PCM to reprogram due to engine shudder. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. So I should probably find out what this transmission repair is. But, this process cant be run in an unauthorized way. If your Ford car or truck is experiencing engine shudder, it could be the result of a variety of different issues. The recall does not mean there is anything wrong with the vehicle, its a software update to prevent a phaser rattle noise from developing. Contact Us - 21N08B 1.2 Hours .any advice? You are using an out of date browser. It was program #21N08 PCM Reprogram due to engine shudder. If your Ford Raptor is experiencing engine shudder, you may need to have the PCM reprogrammed. If it becomes corrupted or damaged, it can cause all sorts of problems including engine shudder. The 21B10 was designed to solve a cam phasers rattle by increasing oil flow to them, but a percentage of affected vehicles demonstrated the side effect of an engine shudder. This just appeared in my ford pass. If you have one of these bikes, you should stop using it immediately and return it to Walmart for a full refund. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. Everything seems relatively fine since, no check engine lights. Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder. However, the increased oil in the cam phasers may affect engine performance, especially when cruising at a steady speed. The affected bikes were sold at Walmart stores nationwide from February 2018 through July 2018. At the time I scheduled service, I clarified that whether or not my vehicle had experienced a rattle at startup, that a reprogramming would be done. Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder". Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. Within a day or less, the cam phaser was rattling again and my engine was shuddering. Pcv Valve Ford 4.2 Liter V6 Engine Diagram . If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. 1997 F150 stalls when defrost turned on full, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. I had the original work done under warranty 54k . I appreciate the help. Privacy Statement - I now have 85k miles. The 21N08 is a pcm reprogram due to engine shudder that reverts the programming back to the original programming prior to the 21B10 reflash. If you are an astute shopper, you might have found these issues before buying a vehicle. The three trucks I have looked at have had the 21N08 update, so my question is.If you were in my position, would you pull the trigger on any of those trucks? While engine shudder can be alarming, its important to keep in mind that not all instances are created equal. In some cases, a little bit of harmless vibrations is perfectly normal and nothing to worry about. Go back and tell the dealer is has a shudder. These are named 21N03 which is targeted to the startup rattle and replaces the cam phasers. This issue is often caused by a software glitch or by using incompatible software for the specific make and model of the car. I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. . Check Gauges Light Comes On, And Car Shuts Off, Roach Getting Into Car Meme Explained: Get On This Trend. Fords brilliant idea was to revert the programming back to the original level. However, the engine shudder is quite noticeable. Your mechanic can hook up a diagnostic tool to your car to determine if this is the issue. I hope that you find everything you need on our website and that we can help guide you through all your automotive needs. Sounds good to me. Theyll be able to determine if the problem is due to a faulty PCM and can reprogram it accordingly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I'm assuming this is like a TSB. No matter what the cause of your engine shudder may be, its always best to err on the side of caution and get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. So you need to verify with your dealership with your VIN that the recall repairs have been done. This generally only affects a low percentage of vehicles that received the 21B10 flash. Replacing rear bumper trim panel - anyone had to? This is because the PCM reprogramming process addresses the root cause of the issue and can help to prevent the issue from recurring in the future. Any shop with an IDS scan tool will be able to check your car for transmission codes. Later that day, it stalled again when I was at a red light. 21N08 is for those with engine shudders. This newer field service action 21N08 software update is designed to solve the motor shuddering problem caused by the 21B10 reflash. By logging into your account, you agree to our, yes they are only done if the concern is present. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Terms of Service - We are talking about millions of trucks and SUVs! Engine shudder is a vibration that can be felt in the vehicle's engine, and it is usually caused by an imbalance . If the rpm is above 16-1800 it drives smooth as can be. The situation is really bad with Ford now. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Privacy Statement - You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly. I'm a long-time Ford and automotive enthusiast, and I've been writing about cars for over 10 years. So, we see that transmission issues may be the cause behind 21n08 engine shudder. (1). Customer Satisfaction Program 21N08 Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder LABOR ALLOWANCES Description Labor Operation Labor Time Test drive to verify engine shudder and reprogram PCM to last revision. By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission. By addressing the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the cars performance and fuel efficiency can be improved. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. I had the first PCM recall done too, but have an engine shudder issue. Issues with IWE potentially caused by PCM Reprogram. Just noticed a shudder after the truck was serviced last weekend. The PCM controls many aspects of the vehicles engine and transmission, including ignition timing, fuel injection, and shifting. Mine had only recently started rattling on startup. develop an undesirable noise. Dealer will. In this article, we will discuss the PCM reprogramming process, the root cause of the program, and the solutions to the issue. The PCM reprogramming process can help to prevent the engine shudder 21N08 issue from recurring in the future. When there are problems with the transmission, it can cause the engine to shudder. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Manage Preferences - Because the 21B10 has expired and the 21N03 is about to expire at the time of this writing, we need to explore what your costs would be if you needed to replace the cam phasers out of your own wallet. This recall affects a variety of models from the 2012-2013 model years, including the Escape, Fusion, Taurus, Flex, Explorer, and F-150. The good news is that replacing the cam phasers will fix the cold start rattle. (2). The 21N08 update is pretty new like just a couple of weeks old, so I do not know if that will fix the engine shudder or the cold start rattle. Hey all, I am looking to buy my first full size truck and very interested in a used F-150 3.5L EcoBoost, all because of being good in gas consumption and the amazing towing capability. My name is Zachary Drumm! BUT.I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the. X-Bull winch reviews | Where are they made? I will see what I can do to assist with this acceleration concern. Getting the parts changed out by a poorly trained monkey when not needed is risky in my opinion. I read somewhere that adding an octane booster for a couple of tanks will help. Ford 5.4 Engine Life Expectancy . t seems like every other Raptor and Ford 10R80 has these issues. They only pay the dealership 75-80% of the labor cost, and guess what, the technicians are the ones who have to cover the difference. If you own one of these affected vehicles, you should take it to your local dealership as soon as possible to have the ECM reprogrammed. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. Is this related to the cam phaser reflash FSA? If Ford was serious about this they would offer customers compensation as Volkswagen did. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. That said, Id still check. Cookie Policy - The reprogram will update the engine control module (ECM) with new calibration files that are optimized for use with low deposit engines. Hi guys, I am pretty new F150 owner (2019 new to me bought about a month ago) and noticed on my ford pass app that I have two notices in my recalls section: CSP 21N03 CAM PHASERS and 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER. 10,492. Y'all better read that letter again. Has anyone else experienced this after having the PCM updated? The PCM reprogramming process involves updating the software that controls the PCM. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. (CSP 21N03 and 21N08), Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum. Mine does this while at low rpms. However, for peace of mind, Ford is providing an extended warranty for customers who receive the PCM update under program 21B10 prior to December 31, 2021 and continue to experience cam phaser noise after receiving that PCM update, A cam phaser that has developed an undesirable noise does not affect the vehicle safety, performance, or emissions. In addition, the ECM will receive an update that will improve transmission shift quality. 1997 F150 stalls when defrost turned on full, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Summary. Sorry my Ford pass just updated and now I have the 21N08 and 21N03. Sep 13, 2021. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. This campaign is for vehicles that had 21B10 S2 performed and had an engine shudder afterward. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information, https://www.f150forum.com/f118/field6275/index152/. I had 21B03 and knock on wood I haven't had any negative side effects like I have read about Im new to my 20, is this a TSB? If your check engine light is on and youre experiencing engine shudder, your car may need a pcm reprogram. Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder . This makes it easy for them to compare symptoms, find solutions and unlock the best-hidden features in their trucks. How can I verify my PCM is extended to 70k? By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. I also don't know if the issue with the Cap Phasers will cause other engine problems down the road. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. #5. Be aware that your cam phaser rattle may return. Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder. In the meantime, its important to be extra careful when driving one of these recalled vehicles. and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder ;In a very low . When this happens, the engine can stall without warning and the vehicle may not be able to be restarted. (CSP 21N03 and 21N08) - Hi guys, I am pretty new F150 owner (2019 new to me bought about a month ago) and noticed on my ford pass app that I have two notices in my recalls section: CSP 21N03 CAM PHASERS and 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. . Im meticulous about my oil changes, every 4000-5000 miles using Amsoil 100% synthetic. If the Carfax shows that the vehicle that you are looking at buying has already received the 21B10, then you may need to take it in for the 21NO8 reflash to revert those settings. Because they are such a popular model, Ford F150 owners have their own forums and subreddits devoted to their truck model. You literally just typed back exactly what I said. All the VCT solenoid and spark plug tube seals require inspection, but not all require replacement. There are several F150s, Expeditions, and Navigators that needed a PCM reprogram due to an Engine shudder. Trading start-up clicking for what sounds like a power neuter job and a "shudder" is nuts. Thats why were committed to quickly addressing any issues that may arise with our vehicles. How will this extend your powertrain warranty 2 years? . The cause of engine shudder can vary, but its often the result of an imbalance in the engine itself. Brought it back to the dealership and they ran the 21N08 - PCM Reprogam Due to . If you previously received the 21B10 PCM update at a Ford dealer and are now experiencing the engine shudder, you should take advantage of the PCM reprogram. A manufacturer customer satisfaction program is a voluntary initiative undertaken by a company to improve customer satisfaction. Ill try to update this report in 2023 as this customer satisfaction bulletin expires. So, it is certainly very uncomfortable and potentially dangerous for the drivers and passengers. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, such as replacing transmission components or performing other repairs, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. This can be done by a Ford dealership or an authorized service center. More importantly, this recall is supposed to help extend the life of the cam phasers as demonstrated by their extended warranty coverage for vehicles that received this PCM reprogram prior to February 2022. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the PCM . By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. @Stevec1129 I haven't had the chance to try this yet, but I'm really hoping this new recall I see for my truck fixes the issue. Thats why you have to take the help of a mechanic or dealership. If youve recently had your engine repaired or replaced, the new parts may not be compatible with the old PCM programming. If you click them and Until I get some specifics on what the reprograms do, I'm holding off. Oh ok perhaps a good point. I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". Cookie Policy - But what exactly is engine shudder? Thanks! If the PCM software is incorrect or outdated, it can cause the engine to shudder or shake. Ford TSB 21N08: Technical Service Bulletin for the 2019 Ford F-150. It is not necessary to remove the two left valve cover camshaft sensors. It was also discussed that the reprogramming could result in a shudder in the drive train which would require further work. Ford then released two further customer satisfaction programs as an extension of coverage. Dealer called and said bill would be $1200. I have three trucks in mind that I am looking at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. It involves surveying customers to identify areas where they are dissatisfied and then taking action to improve those areas. Your car should also be outside of its warranty in order to keep from voiding a warranty on your car. The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. If your car is experiencing engine shudder, it may be time for a PCM reprogram. As I read it (not saying I'm right), If you DON'T do the updates, I think Ford will not cover it in the future. The dealer will reflash the powertrain control module (PCM) with new software to fix the problem. Are you saying the vehicles primarily affected by the engine shudder were poorly maintain or ran low on oil? If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3], Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Hmmm? The 21N08 is a pcm reprogram due to engine shudder that reverts the programming back to the original programming prior to the 21B10 reflash. If your vehicle is equipped with the 3.6L engine and has less than 80,000 miles, it may be eligible for a free of charge power control module (PCM) reprogramming. Symptoms of a bad cam phaser include a loud engine rattle or tick when the engine is running, a check engine light, and stalling at a red light. I scheduled the initial step of the Cam Phaser Reprogramming about three weeks ago. @Lawnpro have you changed your spark plugs yet? I have an appointment to drop mine off in October. In December, I went in for the 21b10 - PCM Program for Cam Phaser Rattle. If you own a Ford vehicle, theres a good chance that it has been recalled for a PCM reprogramming. How about introducing yourself in the new members section and posting a pic of your truck? Plenty of better engineered options out there. Advertising - You are using an out of date browser. This new customer satisfaction program is designed to reverse engine shudder caused by this previous PCM calibration. At Ford Motor Company, we take vehicle safety and quality very seriously. Once 21B10 is done, it unlocks two customer satisfaction programs 21N03 and 21N08. The problem stems from the fact that these vehicles are equipped with an engine control module (ECM) that can fail due to a software error. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. You are using an out of date browser. Calling the dealer when I get back and having it looked at thanks for this info. Send us a private message with your F-150's VIN. Id look much closer at a CPO truck than the remaining 2nd hand market. Reaction score. This PCM update is program 21B10. First off, be aware that CarFax may show these recalls whether or not they have been done. 2015 - 2020 Ford F150 - Are CSP's only performed as needed? We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners. Originally, I understood the engine shudder to be a miscommunication between the camshaft position sensor and the PCM. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The truck. The 5.4L Ford engine is a V8 that was used in many different vehicles from . I got it too. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Need some help ASAP Code P06B6/ Faulty PCM, Ford SVT Raptor General Discussions [GEN 1], Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Hmmm? What is my next option? Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); We use cookies to personalise content and ads, to provide social media features and to analyse our traffic. Cam Phaser replacements costs at least $1200, depending on the shop. Hey! Two versions of PCM calibrations - the regular one (21B10) and one for if you experience engine shudders with the regular one (21B10S2). Location. So i guess every 30k miles i am looking at $1200 bill..crazy this is not covered under warranty!!! You may then need the cam phasers replaced through the 21N03 customer satisfaction plan. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. It is an essential part of a cars powertrain system and is responsible for managing the fuel delivery, ignition timing, and transmission shifts to ensure optimal performance and efficiency of the car. So they basically work 15 hours but get paid only 10 hours. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. Good thing I bought the extended warranty. I was told by my dealer that any FSA'S that have a "B" in them is a fix they are required to do. might be auto on/off that truck comes equipped with, There is a new Recall specifically for this. Reliability is important to me. 2015 - 2020 F150 - 21N08? Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. it's a software update to prevent a phaser . Just extended the coverage. Because of this issue, your engine may shake or shudder. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The truck seems to be driving fine, although I did have some cam/crank codes last month and went to dealer where they performed TSB 21-2357 and SSM 48423. Terms of Service - additional VCT or engine timing related components not included in the Parts List. If it is, theyll likely recommend getting the pcm reprogrammed. at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. . Im going to try to use it as a point of negotiation. Only detectable at a crawl speed. Sometimes you can get a Ford for cheap because it has a cold start rattle. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Fords are equipped with an adaptive shift feature where the computer learns to adjust the shifting for a smoother ride based on the drivers habits. By logging into your account, you agree to our. In December, I went in for the 21b10 - PCM Program for Cam Phaser Rattle. Recall letters were mailed to each affected vehicle owner On September 27, 2021. And if you do need to restart it, make sure youre in neutral or park before doing so. The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. Or, if your vehicle has been in a collision, the impact could have damaged the PCM. I have used premium fuel and it didnt make any difference. If your Ford vehicle is experiencing an engine shudder, its important to get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. The open recalls are unrelated to the transmission. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -.
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ford program 21n08 pcm reprogram due to engine shudder
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