torque converter slip actual vs desired

Your torque converter is full of fluid, and its jobis to act as a hydraulic pump and acts as a coupling between the engine and the transmission. Less than 15rpm is normal and more than that will cause shudder. Unsurprisingly, each engagement or disengagement of the lockup clutch felt like a shift, giving less technically knowledgeable drivers the mistaken impression that Ultramatic was a two-speed automatic. Basically, the fluid exits the center of the turbine and is redirected by the stator back into the impeller. These cookies manage your cookie and privacy preferences. Have you ever gotten in your car, started it up, put it in gear only to feel it shudder? Your first course of action, if you notice yourtransmission or torque converter has started to slip or shudder is checking your fluid level. AE parameters when looking for tranny slip? Once engaged, the lockup clutch simply drove the output shaft at engine speed (not turbine speed). Your car will vibrate even when youre not going very fast. With the clutch engaged, Ultramatic also transmitted some drivetrain vibration that the torque converter would otherwise have absorbed. Some electrical tape and some plastic wire loom may solve your issue entirely. So when the torque converter clutch engages there should be almost 0rpm difference between tc slip desired and tc slip act. When the torque converter starts malfunctioning, you may feel shuddering and even slipping in overdrive. This sounds really great, and it is. Any slip is bad. When coasting, the turbine overruns the impeller, which causes slippage, but relatively little braking effect. Therefore, a lockup clutch needs to be accompanied by some mechanism to selectively engage or disengage the clutch. Studebaker-Packard (the two companies merged in 1954) dropped both of these transmissions after the 1956 model year. by SirHandyMan Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:24 pm, Post scheme, but it does contribute. This very similar to what I experienced with my failure. This is how the first fluid couplings were designed, but they were hideously inefficient because of high slippage. Cookie Notice but the question is when i put my buddys obd code finder on it. The downside to these converters is that they are heavier and more expensive than non-lockup converters. 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I havent studied the Wilson preselectors in any great detail, but if youre curious, the applicable U.S. patents are US1404675 and US1796904. It stays between 0 and 5 RPM when locked. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. The issues of slippage and heat are the main reasons that street converters should be approached with a serious amount of compromise when it comes to stall speed. Such cookies and/or stored data items may be set by various domains (such as, though not necessarily limited to, youtube.com; youtube-nocookie.com; googlevideo.com; ytimg.com; google.com; accounts.google.com; www.googleadservices.com; and/or doubleclick.net, which is part of the DoubleClick advertising service, also owned by Google LLC). The only problem - there's a boat-load of information and I only know how to interpret a fraction of it. This has been a quick jaunt through world of torque converters, but it should at least inspire some intelligent questions to ask your converter company of choice as to the best converter for your application. This is most noticeable from about 1200-1800 rpm. JavaScript is disabled. One or more wp-saving-post cookies may be set while creating and/or editing posts or pages, to help manage version control and the autosave feature; these cookies normally expire after about 24 hours. To learn more about what information the Vimeo platform collects and how that information may be used, see the Vimeo Privacy Policy. I believe that the drive train motion could be perceived as a "shudder" especially under high torque/high load conditions. Google, AdSense, Google AdSense, Google Analytics, and other related marks and logos are trademarks of Google LLC. When the vehicle is at rest, the fluid clutch slips enough to allow the engine to idle with the transmission in gear without stalling. In the diagram above, the yellow arrow again illustrates the flow of power, this time in third (top) gear. 6 speed/8 speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T43, T76, T87) T43 Torque Converter Desired Slip. If the solenoid is not regulating the fluid flow properly, it could cause variability in the torque converter clutch performance as well. Overdrive ratios drive the torque converter at speeds generally below normal coupling speed, creating increased slippage and heat, which is unacceptable. The torque converter is made up of five parts: The stator is called the middleman. It was followed in fairly short order by the 1950 Studebaker Automatic Drive, which took a somewhat different approach to the same problem. The torque converter is so essential to the global car market theres a global torque converter market. All rights reserved. If you are experiencing shuddering, also check your engine mounts. (PayPal.com, PayPal, and all logos related to the PayPal services are either trademarks or registered trademarks of PayPal, Inc. or its licensors. But the most common torque converter problems are listed below. Failing Torque Converter Clutch with Slippage - Ford Flex Clutch, Transmission, Differential, Axle & Transfer Case, The following errors occurred with your submission, Lightning, Harley-Davidson F-150, Roush F-150 & Saleen F-150, Conventional (Bumper Pull) Towing; Travel Trailers & Pop-ups, Toy Hauler Towing; Fifth Wheel & Bumper Pull, Flatbed, Car, Boat, Utility, Horse & Misc. We were wrong. I had "guessed" that it could have been a valve body issue when trying to diagnose on my own and I replaced that to no avail. 3. and 5. if you dont hammer on it everyday it will last you a long time.. my stock converter had 350 rpms of slip on the 310 tune and the truck still had all kinds of power even locked. The vehicle suffered a torque converter failure at around 140k miles. (author diagram). Torque converter slip question I was monitoring some Torque converter params for my 4R55E with my in dash scantool. The DG series transmissions were notionally three-speed automatics (although early iterations were designed to start in second gear) with a torque converter lockup clutch. One thing Ive always wondered about was if any manufacturers looked into Wilson pre-selector gearboxes as a basis of an automatic. Your IP: But now with the Spartan 275 I am seeing 18.24 at WOT with the converter locked. First, that slip wastes some fuel youre paying for more engine revolutions (and more power) than reach the driveshaft. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. These torque converters allow some slippage but it should not vary much from the desired PCM value. With a manual transmission, you are allowed the freedom to pick the starting-line rpm you want to apply when you dump the clutch. Ate Up With Motor, its logo, and other associated icons and graphics are trademarks and/or service marks of Aaron Severson dba Ate Up With Motor. (author diagram). Unfortunately, additional stall speed also increases the slippage in the converter. mroberthowell 4 yr. ago Thank you so much! However, that clutch was used in a distinctly different way than was Packards. Just thought I would share with everyone some recent learnings I've had with my 2010 EB Flex. If oil pressure to the cylinder was relieved, the pressure plate would no longer be held against the clutch plate, disengaging the clutch and allowing the torque converter to function normally. The slipping occurs while you're driving or changing gears, and it usually comes with some odd noises too. A healthy plate clutch slips only briefly when engaged or disengaged. Diagnosing a potential Torque Converter problem with a Scan tool. If your car transmission keeps overheating, you may also notice your transmission starts to act funny, or it may even go into fail date and stay in one gear and not shift at all. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Reach out to your local AAMCO transmission center when youre ready for your efficient, smooth and worry-free ride. We arent saying 10RPM of slip is bad, what we are saying is that seems to be the progression point of going out. Since taking all the of the steps outlined above, I can confirm that the transmission has been running properly and the clutch working as expected. Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics The annulus (purple) is held in reverse, idles in low, and rotates with the sun gears in direct drive. The torque converter clutch is always slipping somewhere between 5% to 95% when engaged, which depends on vehicle speed and engine load.. We discussed the information to monitor on the scan tool, there is an actual slip, desired slip, and TCC status. But this shuttering is not caused by a disease. (author diagram). The original Packard Ultramatic had a four-element torque converter with a single stator (light blue) interposed between the first- and second-stage turbines, providing a stall ratio of 2.4:1 at 1,600 rpm. by Silver Flex SEL. Most street torque converters tend to operate in the 3 to 5 percent slippage range, but this can go as high as 8 percent. A third drum (dark green) allows the overrunning clutchs outer race to be locked in place by the forward band, which is engaged in all forward gears. Once the clutch plate is fully engaged against the pressure plate, both must turn together at the same speed. Well Aaron . As you can see I was experiencing multiple issues, all of which were exacerbating the clutch slippage and/or shuddering issue. I think you should check the fluid level first and foremost. The TCC solenoid regulates the fluid pressure to the clutch. I am however, now chasing some unusual engine noises which are a different issue entirely. Some iterations of the Studebaker Automatic Drive/Borg-Warner DG started in first gear, but early transmissions started in second unless the driver manually selected Low. The Vimeo Cookie Policy also provides information about how Vimeo users can control the use of third-party analytics and/or advertising cookies in connection with embedded Vimeo video players. That isnt true of a fluid clutch, whose torus members are free to rotate at different speeds. Contact Us - Another important part of the torque converter and stall-speed equation is converter diameter. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.

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